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Suggestions wanted for 4metre+ scale sailplane

Started by EricF, December 23, 2011, 22:03:14 pm

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EricF

December 23, 2011, 22:03:14 pm Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 23:48:50 pm by EricF
Hi All,

I would be pleased to receive suggestions for a 4 metre+ scale sailplane. I have been looking at the Tangent and H-Modell ranges and would be pleased to receive feedback on their offerings, but I would also be open to more suggestions for models from other manufacturers.

I have been offered a Pat Teakle ASW20 kit, but I don't really have the room (or co-operative wife!) to do the amount of building that's required for that model.

I suppose I'm prepared to pay around £1K for a suitable aircraft. Normally I wouldn't be able to spend that amount of money on a model, but I have been left a small legacy so it's time to treat myself and I think that's what the source of the funds would have wanted me to do with it.

I fly slope and thermal gliders up to 4 metre wingspan and have been flying r/c for just under 50 years.

All suggestions gratefully received.

Many thanks - Eric
I'm not old, I've just been young for a very long time!

Steve J

I have no experience of models of this size, but if I was in the market for a 4m scale glider, I would have the  Baudis Salto on my long list.

Steve

EricF

Thanks for your reply Steve,

I know of the Salto which is a tempting model but it's not quite what I'm looking for. Our slope isn't too brilliant here at Thurnham in Kent and I need something that gives reasonable performance in the limited lift we have here. It's a bit like the Fox in that it needs good blow and speed to keep in the air. We were flying 4.8m Fox in a good blow here today and that was a bit marginal at times. Quality prefabbed kits of say DGs, ASWs, ASHs etc and feedback on how people have got on with them is what I'm really looking for.

Many thanks - Eric
I'm not old, I've just been young for a very long time!

slopeflyer

I have flown a large tangent 5m ship on edge hill which I suspect is more of marginal hill that thurnham. Depends what you want to do, scratch about? Or hoon? Problem tho is you'll never get the chance to explore the performance envelope of big heavy aircraft on marginal hills. A big mouldie 3m-3.5m has more usable performance and flys in a wider range. Needs less landing area too.

SteveBB

Has it got to be totally pre-fabricated? You could do a lot worse than a Graupner (formally MPX) ASH26. It's 4 metres, and will fly in wide range of lift conditions. You'll not need to spend  grand either. Couple of our gang have it, and it's a very nicely made model.
Rimmer: Step up to Red Alert!
Kryten: Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb.

JohnMac

You won't go far wrong with the Tangent ASH 26. If you want really scale, the starting price for the Paritech ASH 26 comes in just over your mentioned budget. It is fully moulded and exact scale.

SteveBB

Quote from: JohnMac on December 24, 2011, 08:34:01 am
You won't go far wrong with the Tangent ASH 26. If you want really scale, the starting price for the Paritech ASH 26 comes in just over your mentioned budget. It is fully moulded and exact scale.


Isn't the Tangent/Graupner 26 the same model John? I thought it depended on which particular company owned the moulds at the time..
Rimmer: Step up to Red Alert!
Kryten: Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb.

swarrans

The ASH looks lovely Eric but if you wanted fully moulded and a bit less work this looks rather wonderful
http://www.acemodel.co.uk/scale/asw-28/prod_139.html

Looks highly Aerobatic from the video!

What a wonderful dilemma to have!

Can't wait to see whatever you choose up on the slope......

Si
I'm back from the Dark Side - I like gliders!

JohnMac

Quote from: SteveBB on December 24, 2011, 08:45:49 am
Isn't the Tangent/Graupner 26 the same model John? I thought it depended on which particular company owned the moulds at the time..

Hi Steve,
Graupner don't own the moulds. Tangent still make the model and put a Graupner label  (and price) on it ::)
The Paritech one is a quite different machine.

EricF

Thanks Guys for your suggestions, I shall investigate each of them carefully.

I have also been quite taken with the H-Modell DG600 but sourcing one is a bit tricky.

Eric
I'm not old, I've just been young for a very long time!

flight1

From Airworld you can get ready to fyl ASW 27 or 28 or the nimbus 4  ;)   would be my tip http://www.airworld.de/Englisch/Index.htm



Paritech do some as well http://www.paritech.de/modellbau/uebersicht.php

EricF

Thanks very much Flight1 for the heads-up on both the Airworld and Paritech offerings. Very useful.

Our group has been flying a 4 metre ASW27, a 5 metre ASW17 and 6 metre ASW20 off the slope at Thurnham today so my appetite is now well and truly whetted for a large scale job. The conditions have been excellent but a bit cold as the afternoon progressed

Regards - Eric
I'm not old, I've just been young for a very long time!

GP


EricF

Not yet Gary.

I've decided that I ought to get my five other 4 metre models in a flyable condition before I start on yet another project.
In any case the legacy money won't be available for a few months anyway.
I think that when I do buy the model it will be one of the TopModellCZ offerings as they seem to be very nicely constructed and finished (unless anyone knows anything to the contrary!)
I'm not old, I've just been young for a very long time!

Simonslim

I'm awaiting the arrival of a Royal-Model ASW 28-18 from http://www.pp-rc.de/index.htm.
4090mm wingspan, fiberglass fuselage and wings, complete with installed retractable landing gear and air-brakes.
Gets some canny write-ups and is reasonably priced too.
Regards
Simon.

EricF

March 22, 2012, 23:48:12 pm #15 Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 00:22:45 am by EricF
Thanks for your suggestion Simon and sorry about the delay in replying.
The ASW28-18 looks very tasty and is certainly a candidate for a new scale job.
Useful website.
Many thanks again - Eric
Edit:
PS - Just found and read your build thread. Best of luck with the maiden.
I'm not old, I've just been young for a very long time!

Allen the soarer

Eric
I had the Tangent Ash 26
did you not see it?

Fantastic model

Only negative was that she was a little heavy I would not throw her out under 8mph or off the flat but over 8 mph on the slope she is great!!

Well made, fast, good roll rate, cant find a bad word to say, the wings come from the 4001 Alpina which might effect the Scale look a little but wow does it help the flight characteristics
Don't buy something new
When you can hack something old

EricF

The Tangent models are excellent, so I'm starting to get spoilt for choice.

In the interim, until I make up my mind which new model to get, I have bought a 5 metre PT ASW-17 to get me used to flying larger models again.
Maybe they are old hat but I'll still enjoy it!
I'm not old, I've just been young for a very long time!

EricF

Here's the ASW 17 along with a two more ASWs, a brace of Countrymen and two F3Fs all flown by the Kent Massive on a day out to the South Downs where there should have been some 'big lift', but there wasn't much at all. However the crack and the beer afterwards was excellent.
slope soaring jack and jill
The ASW17 on its own.
slope soaring Eric's ASW 17
I'm not old, I've just been young for a very long time!

Anthony


EricF

Thanks Ant.

Yes, it's a lovely relaxing model to fly.
The airbrakes are top and bottom of the wing so the flaps aren't used for landing. I use them for adjusting camber and for working in conjunction with the ailerons to give it a more positive roll response.
The landing in the video was a bit short as the lift dropped off quite rapidly and I had to make a quick dash back to the top of the slope.
My first landing of the day was best with a long low approach touching down just past us, but sod's law meant it wasn't captured on video.
I'm not old, I've just been young for a very long time!

EricF

An update on my progress

I flew the ASW 17 at the Baldock Tugs and Gliders event in September 2012 and had a great day.

Following that session I attended the Ghost Squadron Aerotow event at Middle Wallop and had an interesting incident. On the first tow of the day, the tug and my ASW 17 steadily climbed to about 200 feet  altitude and then suddenly the port wing folded 160 degrees. Luckily the model went into a sycamore spin and it landed relatively softly with minimal damage to the fuselage.
On inspection of the wing I was amazed to find that there was no central or any spar outboard of where the wing joiner structure finished - just white foam, the leading and trailing edges and obechi veneer skin. I had been gently aerobatting the model when on the slopes in Kent and Sussex and the wing must have been on the edge of failing on those occasions - luckily it didn't happen at a great height.
I have devised a repair strategy which will have to be applied to both wings when I have the time.

In the meantime, I have purchased from John A.Elliott his lovely Tangent 4 metre ASH 26 which I am soon to get into the air, but I am still on the lookout for an interesting model on which to spend those legacy funds!!
I'm not old, I've just been young for a very long time!

Anthony

Hi Eric, sad to hear that especially in front of a crowd. Sounds to me that these wings are home grown. Pats wings had Ramin spars top and bottom at the main wing joiner running out to the tip as well as a shorter sub spar round about the incidence pin location. On the '20' which I built the leading edge was Ramin wood with a hard balsa trailing edge which made them very strong, certainly wouldn't have folded on the tow. The '26' is a fantastic bit of kit, good luck with the repair.  Ant.

EricF

Hi Ant, Thanks for your comments.

The ASW17 isn't a Pat Teakle kit but it may be either a Robbe or some other continental producers offering which we, the Thurnham Massive - http://www.goodwindsoaring.blogspot.co.uk/p/meet-massive.html - are still trying to identify.

The fuselage has a rebate around the cockpit area whereas Pat's fuselages have a flat flange.
Also the wing and tailplane root areas on the fuselage have complex indents and so it seems that the mould may have been created for large scale production as it looks to have been expensive to construct.

The person I bought the model from said that he believed that the wing had extra spars installed and I took him at his word especially as he said he had put it through its paces without incident. There was no sign of impending doom prior to take-off and yes it was embarrassing to have that happen in front of an expert crowd, especially as it was only my fourth ever large scale aerotow!

Some people reading this may also recall my hilarious subsequent aerotows earlier this year at Siege Cross with an Habicht scale glider. Releasing a smallish 2.5 metre model at over 1,000 feet into a patch of clear blue sky had everyone laughing at its antics as I couldn't see it until it eventually drifted across a cloud and I located it again, however that was shortly followed by an excursion into a bush after a tip stall on the base leg. Now you know why I prefer slope flying to flat field aerotows.

I will be posting a video of John A Elliott's ASH 26 now in my possession when I get it into the air, as I promised his wife that I would as he is not too well these days and she said that they both would appreciate seeing it in action again.

Eric
I'm not old, I've just been young for a very long time!

Anthony

Hi Eric, my mistake, I just took it that it was the same '17' as in the previous video. It's probably earlier than the Robbe one, I think Gewalt and Roke made a 4m version long ago but having no spar still makes me think 'home grown wings'. Just had a nose at your "Massive" and wet myself at the Character Descriptions. Maybe a few pics will jolt people's minds. Ant.

EricF

Hi Ant, No you didn't make a mistake it is the same 17 as shown in the video.
Thanks for the info on the possible makers of the kit for this model. I'll post some photos of the wing and tailplane root area on the fuselage and the cockpit edges and maybe someone will be able to solve this puzzle. While I'm about it I'll add a picture of the failed area of the wing.

Now that you've found the Goodwind Soaring site, take a look at the movies listed on the right-hand side, especially the one entitled 'Pub Combat'. The movies should keep you entertained for a while. If you'd like to see all of Goodwind's movies, go to YouTube and search for 'miniphase' or click this link - http://www.youtube.com/user/miniphase
Eric.
I'm not old, I've just been young for a very long time!

EricF

My Multiplex Tangent ASH 26 has now had its first flights in my hand and it flies like a dream - it's a keeper!!
My friend 'Mr Goodwind' has shot some video of the session and I'll be posting it here as soon as it's available.

http://www.goodwindsoaring.blogspot.co.uk/
I'm not old, I've just been young for a very long time!

Anthony

Nice, never heard anybody say a bad thing about the 26. Ant.