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Is this Habicht forming?

Started by Hairyflier, July 30, 2014, 16:43:04 pm

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Hairyflier

Been hanging my nose over this model for some time, when it came up in the HK sale I could no longer resist. Just wonder who has bought the other 6. Several guy's in Craig's club down under are flying them, they are proving quite popular. :af

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=25397
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Voltaire

Butzi

I have the Windrider version in blue and I tarted it up to resemble (very loosely I might add) Hanna Reitsch's version.
Even though it sports the humble Clark Y wing section, it's still capable of a very scale like aerobatic repertoire and the airbrakes work really well.

Hairyflier

Quote from: Butzi on July 30, 2014, 20:23:22 pm
I have the Windrider version in blue and I tarted it up to resemble (very loosely I might add) Hanna Reitsch's version.
Even though it sports the humble Clark Y wing section, it's still capable of a very scale like aerobatic repertoire and the airbrakes work really well.
Is that the same as the HK Blue one at 2.4 mtrs with a plastic fuselage or is it a totally different model?
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Voltaire

Butzi

Mine has a 2.6m span with GRP fuselage which makes it the same as this particular Hobbyking version: http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=21842
But I see there is also a slightly smaller one at 2.4m span: http://www.44ghz.com/hobbyking-dfs-habicht-scale-glider-2400mm/
Confusing or what!

Mike_T

July 30, 2014, 21:56:48 pm #4 Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 21:58:52 pm by Mike_T
I bought one when they had their 'Black Friday' sale last November.  Cost 93 quid inc postage.  It's the 2.6M version - same as Windrider (and at one time Jamara were distributing them at well over £200!)

Mines a bit lardy at 4kg RTF (without the brakes/servos fitted), possibly due to me doing a number on the elevator pushrod and joiner setup - the original is a bit naff, so waiting for a reasonable blow to maiden it (possibly tomorrow!)


Hairyflier

My son Craig has the 2.4 mtr one, although a lot cheaper it has a more brittle plastic fuselage which he has had to repair a couple of times. The 2.6 mtr would appear to be a bit more robust. They say both come out heavy but then it is not claimed to be a floater. I have a Hobby King Salto which is a veritable bowling ball, I'm hoping this will be a little less stressful.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Voltaire

Hairyflier

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Voltaire

Butzi

Mine weighs in at just over 8Lbs (about 3.7Kg?), but it'll happily stooge around in about a 10 MPH breeze off the slope.

tilmanb

Its a pretty good build. But you won't get very far without the instructions, which HK does not include.
In early finished mine now. With detachable horizontal stabilizers. I can later add a few pics.

It takes a ton of nose weight.

tilmanb

PS: I can pass my instructions to whoever needs them.

Hairyflier

Quote from: tilmanb on July 31, 2014, 08:19:26 am
Its a pretty good build. But you won't get very far without the instructions, which HK does not include.
In early finished mine now. With detachable horizontal stabilizers. I can later add a few pics.

It takes a ton of nose weight.
Instructions are on the international website under the files tab. You can download them as a PDF file.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Voltaire

Hairyflier

Speaking to the Australian guy's 8lbs would seem to be the norm.  I'm never shy of putting lead in a scale glider remember the full size has about 15 stones of human ballast. I plan to use lightweight servo's in the wings and HS225BB's (x3) in the nose plus a Multiplex nose release for aerotowing. If I can get everything well forward this should reduce the amount of lead required but I will be happy with 8lbs AUW.  :af
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Voltaire

Mike_T

The steel bar wing joiner weighs about 500g on its own and it's behind the CG, so I'm looking to replace it with a carbon rod.
At 11mm, its an odd size (I've only found it on medical suppliers' websites so far - where it costs an arm and a leg - ha ha), so I'm going to try sleeving a 10mm rod with the harder type of shrink tube - the clear stuff used for batt. packs. Just a bit concerned that it will jam in the tubes after being subjected to flight loads...

Butzi

Mike, as the wing joiner is just less than 25mm behind the CG I didn't bother swapping my joiner for a lighter version, not withstanding the odd size which is difficult to match. The plus side of course is that the extra weight gives a bit extra penetration and momentum for aerobatics.

Mike_T

Yes, I suppose I should try flying it as is before I start faffing about!

The instructions linked above on the HK global website are in fact Jamara's instructions, which state a top-end weight of 3.1kg - hence my concerns. 

I've no doubt it will fly very well, but I don't want to find out the hard way (walk of shame) that it needs a good blow to get it going ( :co), which is why I'm planning some weight reduction strategies.

tilmanb

July 31, 2014, 21:05:48 pm #15 Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 21:08:50 pm by tilmanb
My detachable  horizontal stab.





Epoxied a square spruce pin into the elevator. Treated with release agent so I can pull it out again.

SteveBB

Quote from: tilmanb on July 31, 2014, 21:05:48 pm
My detachable  horizontal stab.



Epoxied a square spruce pin into the elevator. Treated with release agent so I can pull it out again.


I think I'd be not using a spruce square peg as an elevator hinge. Spruce isn't very good at taking twisting forces before it splits. Ask me how I know.

Mike T: The wing area of the model will make the wing loading not too bad, so although half a church roof in the nose is a lot, it will probably be okay.

Rimmer: Step up to Red Alert!
Kryten: Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb.

Mike_T

It's a lot of wing, indeed.  I have it balanced on the foremost recommended point, so after the maiden, some of the church roof may come out, who knows?

I looked at the removable tail, but decided I had enough engineering on my hands to get it straight, so settled for fixed.  I mentioned my beefed up joiner.  If anything accounts for the weight in the tail, it's this:


SteveBB

Quote from: Mike_T on July 31, 2014, 21:56:17 pm
It's a lot of wing, indeed.  I have it balanced on the foremost recommended point, so after the maiden, some of the church roof may come out, who knows?

I looked at the removable tail, but decided I had enough engineering on my hands to get it straight, so settled for fixed.  I mentioned my beefed up joiner.  If anything accounts for the weight in the tail, it's this:


That's more workmanlike though Mike. A few extra ounces but will make little overall difference compared with the rest of it.
Rimmer: Step up to Red Alert!
Kryten: Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb.

tilmanb

Quote from: SteveBB on July 31, 2014, 21:28:28 pm
I think I'd be not using a spruce square peg as an elevator hinge. Spruce isn't very good at taking twisting forces before it splits. Ask me how I know.

I wanted to use a square carbon rod. But spruce is what I had here at the time.
Should be fine.

tadleysoarer

Thanks for this thread, I have been considering a Habicht for a while and 2.6M is quite manageable size. Not heard of HobbyKing before are they a good mail order company?

Tad
Scale soarer's do it quietly in style!

Hairyflier

Mine finally arrived at 4:00pm today as I missed the delivery on Friday. I must say it looks promising but there is a fair bit to do to get it right. Like most ARTF's it is possible to throw them together and get a flyable model but to achieve the desired result will take a bit of effort. My slim wing servo's dropped in nicely but the airbrakes are another matter. I would like to hinge them with something other than sticky tape. The fuselage is a nice moulding but will require a bit more glass cloth in the nose and maybe a skid or (non scale) wheel. Onward and upward. :af
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Voltaire

Butzi

I hinged my brakes on the inside face with Solartex using Balsaloc as the adhesive. However, setting up the airbrake servos tested my patience somewhat!  :o

Mike_T

I ducked the airbrakes - couldn't face trying to bridge all the gaps!  I put 1/16" sheet 'shelves' on the underside of the top skins for them to sit on, then neatly sellotaped them in.  They're a project for another day...

Hairyflier

So far so good, quite a bit off fettling to do with this one but so far I'm pleased with the results. A little more nose weight in the form of a Pete's Pilot which is a perfect fit. Plenty of room in that cavernous fuselage for all the radio gear right up front. Really looking forwards to flying this one.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Voltaire

Mike_T

August 10, 2014, 14:39:52 pm #25 Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 14:43:01 pm by Mike_T
Bear in mind that you'll need a lot of that space in the nose for the lead!

BTW, I also gave up on the magnets to retain the hatch.  Put a dowel in the front edge and filed a matching slot in the fus.  The rear end is secured with a hatch-catch.  A nice firm fit and quite unobtrusive.

PS - I can see you've installed a tow release.  I fitted one of the cheap HK ones as well, in the vain hope that someone at the field could give me a tow (so far the only person who can do that is...me)

Hairyflier

Quote from: Mike_T on August 10, 2014, 14:39:52 pm
Bear in mind that you'll need a lot of that space in the nose for the lead!

BTW, I also gave up on the magnets to retain the hatch.  Put a dowel in the front edge and filed a matching slot in the fus.  The rear end is secured with a hatch-catch.  A nice firm fit and quite unobtrusive.

PS - I can see you've installed a tow release.  I fitted one of the cheap HK ones as well, in the vain hope that someone at the field could give me a tow (so far the only person who can do that is...me)


I managed to get the magnets to work but wont rely on them, especially with the weight of the pilot in there too. I aero tow all the time as living in the middle of the Central Massiff of Essex it's many miles to a slope site. It does mean getting a club mate to fly my tug for me but not generally a problem. I tried the recommended 500 grams of lead this morning, looks like it will need a good bit more. I can't make out what those rear wing bolts actually achieve unless they are supposed to be used to adjust the incidence in some way. As supplied the don't come anywhere near fully home against the washers and I can see that if they are over-tightened it will deform those soft ally arms and probably make removing the wings extremely difficult.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Voltaire

Hairyflier

Well I just cut some old lead flashing into inch and a half strips and set to work, it fits very neatly up around the tow release. 800 grams seems to do the trick, I shall glass in 600 and leave a couple of strips free for final trimming. Also I am using LifeP04 batteries which are very light, should I revert to Nimh that would affect things. All looking good so far. :af
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Voltaire

Hairyflier

All finished bar the final fixing of the lead. 833g puts the balance spot on, I'll live with that. I'm well pleased with the skid it totally changes the side profile I chickened out of the drop off dolly though.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Voltaire

Butzi

Have you had a look through this thread yet? There might be some useful info on there for you.   :af
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1112354&highlight=Windrider+Habicht

Jonzjob

I have just joined this forum and on reading through came across this. No news on how you guys have got on so what has happened and are they still flying? :af

I have been building a 1/4 scale jobbie for too many years now and when our 'soon to be' house move has settled I hope to get back to finishing it. A bit more building than your models, but I'll bet they will look very similar in the air  :af
Never forget that you are unique. Just like everybody else..
My wood turning hobby page https://johnamandiers.wixsite.com/johns-w-o-w-1  John.